Curse

Canadian · Jul 01, 2005, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Guilds; for any PvP player, they make life much easier. HoH is always easier to engage in, provided you have a guild. GvG requires a guild. Organized 4v4 can be done with friends, or just about anyone (luckily). Random 4v4 is for anyone. (I am excluding pre-level 20 pvp).

Of these PvP types, HoH and GvG are the most rewarding in many ways: They provide faction points much faster and they provide ranking and fame; GvG provides a certain status among the Guild Wars community; HoH provides celestial sigils. They are both very fun, also.

So guilds are very important and convenient to any serious PvP player. I have experienced guilds in the past. Five guilds in total: My first guild was my own, when I started playing (as a beginner I just made it for fun). My second was the Forsaken Elite (a guild that fell appart a week after I joined). My third was a rebound guild formed by me and the good players from Forsaken Elite (which broke down in a day). My fourth guild was a rebound guild for myself, called the Walmart Shoppers (which I soon quit after I decided it wasn't good). My fifth, and current guild is my own; with a guild hall, and all. As a rank five player, can you guess how many members I have in my guild? Can I get a guess? TWO (2); me and a friend.

This is the point: Good players are easy to find. Good players without guilds are almost impossible to find. Good players willing to quit their guild for a serious guild are the hardest to find. You can find good players in the game, but you can't play any organized PvP with them, and you certainly can't recruit them for your guild. Players either have a guild from beta, have a guild from the start of the game, won't join your guild, or are idiots (which I don't want).

I consider myself a pro at Guild Wars. I'm not the very best; heck, just a week ago I didn't know what a spike group was. The thing about me that separates me from the rest is that I try, I think, I learn, and I spend decent time; I'm not slow, and I certainly use the best of my time. Alas, this is not enough to join or recruit good players for that GvG experience; you have to have great luck, you have to know them, you will have better luck if you were in beta, you "should have gotten with the guild when it was recruiting", you... get the point, right? It's hard.

Just today I've been spending over five hours in the HoH playing with different builds, searching for good players. The good players either tell me they don't want a guild with so few players, they want a guild that is well known or with a well known player, or they're already in a guild. I spent five hours, and didn't win one HoH; nor did I win a guild member over.

Is it this hard for everyone with a guild hall, a cape, and a ranking to get players? It seems like I have to have a good number of guild members to be able to further recruit guild members, which is sort of a loop-hole. I don't get it...

Makkert · Jul 01, 2005, 08:06 AM // 08:06

welcome to the world of branding.
the name of good players or a famous guild are the only thing that can add value.
i correct myself. other values: friendship, maturity, same region, same age.

everyone claiming 'cool cape' or 'we have guildhall' is missing the point of a guild.

its about profilating your guild. you might want to try merging with a guild if you find these good players?

and i'm right there with you. i practiced in random arena, started to get the play, then moved to team arena for next step. i got owned bad by guildteams. but i see the skills they use, evaluate after a loss and come up with a counter. its what makes this so nifty.

none · Jul 01, 2005, 08:06 AM // 08:06

I see ppl advertising their guilds with "guild cape, guild hall, teamspeak, ...." all the time, so this surely isn't enough to make anyone join a guild.

When reading your post, there's one question that came to my mind - why don't you join a guild yourself? If I really wanted to find nice ppl to play with, I would have a lookout for teams with more than one member from the same guild. Because if everyone is organised in guilds of 2 or 3 (which seems to be quite common, actually), and refuses to join other guilds - well, no wonder I never see more than 2 ppl from one guild at the same time (in PvE).

Canadian · Jul 01, 2005, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by none

I see ppl advertising their guilds with "guild cape, guild hall, teamspeak, ...." all the time, so this surely isn't enough to make anyone join a guild.

True. I have made this observation before creating my guild. Because of this, I do not attempt to recruit in this fassion; I attempt to recruit based on playing HoH or PvP with a player, then PM'ing them formally with a request for them to join my guild. I have had some people contemplate, but in the end... it will end in a no.

Quote:

Originally Posted by none

why don't you join a guild yourself?

I have decided to take action, rather than searching for a guild. I have spent a fair amount of time in guilds. I was with a guild at rank 132, which fluxuated between 230-390, depending on the day. This guild broke up. Then I was with a guild with complete idiots. It's hard to find a good guild. This is why I'm trying to start a good guild, where I will recruit anyone with skill... anyone pro. I just have to find the person is good... either through playing with him, reference from a trustable person, or if that person has a high ranking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by none

If I really wanted to find nice ppl to play with, I would have a lookout for teams with more than one member from the same guild. Because if everyone is organised in guilds of 2 or 3 (which seems to be quite common, actually), and refuses to join other guilds - well, no wonder I never see more than 2 ppl from one guild at the same time (in PvE).

True that; although I am trying to start not only a cooperative and nice guild, but a professional guild. One that can compare to the Sissy Boys, Kor, etc. Ya, it sounds ridiculous, but I set my standards high. I have never not met my goals, and believe me, I have set standards like these many times before.

Zeru · Jul 01, 2005, 08:39 AM // 08:39

I'm in the same boat as you. We've gone from only accepting very good players who are nice and interested to accepting anyone willing to learn. When we don't have our absolute best on, our tombs success takes quite a dive

We go by spam recruiting in tombs/toa followed up by spam kicking if they are not up to standard which happens quite a lot. We do get ppl who are pickups when we lack someone for tombs but that is rarer.

It gets really frusterating having to spend 30 minutes getting a guild group for tombs, because you have to investigate everyone's build to make sure a warrior left out healing signet or mending or such rubbish. Then you lose in a few rounds due to a gangbang or people not playing skillfully and the process repeats (700 faction from my guild in 2 nights/6 hours of tombs, ain't that great?). The worst part is, the faction system kills any hope of these kinds of people from acquiring decent amounts of stuff through pvp. So many guildies I've had to turn down for tombs runs in favor of other guildies who might be less experienced because they didn't have skills x y and z to complete the build that we were running. Same thing today with a hammer war who didn't have backbreaker or aftershock :| 20some people in guild, a grand 2 who have good skills/runes/mods for more than 1 class.

I'm just as lost as you as to how to fix it. There are simply too many guilds, too few dedicated pvpers still around, too few farmers who like pvp, and the road to improvement is simply long and arderous, certainly not helped by the very anti-casual pvper patches by anet. Any suggestions would be very welcomed, as I am always seeking constructive advice.

The Ages · Jul 01, 2005, 09:18 AM // 09:18

I Find myself to be a decent player (Ofcourse who dont :P) but I Find myself without a guild.

I Know that I will not offer much to a guild because I dont enjoy and as of now dont even have a PvE Toon. That means I have limited Skills hardly any Runes, Iv had some offers from what seemed like some Promisiing groups but its unlike me to ask someone to cart me through to obtain skills.

I dont wish to be dead weight to a group because I Cant change my build around at a whim or even having the solid builds I have on paper but will never have the skill unlocks for anything outside of Team and Random arenas.

Anyway off the tangent. I Think the reason you and alot of people are in the position your in is because there are few real hardcore PvPs who dedicated themselfs to wade through the PvE and having the right skills availible at a given moment for a group of People is a Necessity most people dont have.

Myodato · Jul 01, 2005, 09:46 AM // 09:46

The game is called Guild Wars, and with the addition of Faction, GvG and the Guild you are in will become a lot more important.

So far in this game it's apparent that anyone and everyone has formed/joined a Guild just to get a cape. This mean that currently being in a Guild doesn't have the meaning that people like the OP would like. I applaud the idea of trying to form a commited PvP Guild, but with so many Guilds currently available, you are fighting a losing battle starting with so few members. Anybody interested and experienced in GvG and HoH knows the importance of a good Guild, and the importance of having sufficient members.

My Guild has 20-30 members atm, yet still struggles to get eight together for GvG at any given time. The sort of people you are looking for are not going to be interested in helping you recruit enough for you to start froming Guild parties, when they can easily join one of many Guilds that already has the member base. Why join a start up Guild when they can join one like my own that just requires a couple more active members to ensure regular group PvP ?

I appreciate your problem, fortunately I'm only on my second Guild and am very happy with it. I think you're best finding a good Guild to join, though I wish you luck with trying to make one. The new PvP awards will raise Guild profiles, and those which are good to join will become more apparent in the next few weeks - as long as they have the members with which to prove it.

Rey Lentless · Jul 01, 2005, 10:02 AM // 10:02

It's real doubtful that you're going to find 'good' players that aren't in a guild, because of how you define a 'good' player.. when team work wins. If someone is in a random team without vent or TS, and going against a guild.. they're going to lose. So you assume those players aren't as 'good'. So the only 'good' players you think you're seeing are those already in a guild. It's a catch 22 in perception.

So I seriously doubt waiting to 'see' good players is something you're going to be successful with. You could spam in the team arena, pick up anyone without a guild that's interested, or in some guild they find subpar. Then weed out the good ones from there.

I wouldn't give up on joining an existing guild, I would just look differently. Actively check guild websites that have plenty of people already. The problem of course is too many guilds thinning the pool out. You're part of the problem with this. You're taking yourself and whoever's in your guild.. away from the pool of available people who can join some other guild (just like yours).

I know the thought process involved you joining a few different guilds, realizing it wasn't working and then just saying you'll do it yourself.. which is completely understandable. But realize that that thought process occurred with a bunch of other people as well.. and they all did the same thing.. make their own guild.. instead of joining your guild.. and you didn't join theirs. So be part of the solution and don't take away from the available pool.. be part of it.

Abandon your guild, actively search for a successful or near successful guild, and be part of that.

Genos · Jul 01, 2005, 10:13 AM // 10:13

I think i got lucky with my guild - i joined up with the Amazon basin and havent looked back since- i just joined Dreadful Dead, which is our pvp dedicated guild. as to things. yeah, sadly people seem to want to just get a cape and things.. tragic really.

just hunt around - you will find good players - try and find other high qualtiy but small guilds and merge with them. prehaps set up a site and forums for your guidl, to help advertise it - things like that all help.

Schorny · Jul 01, 2005, 10:14 AM // 10:14

I'm on my third guild and I have a nice story for you:

One of my RL friends joined a group to go through lornars pass, most of them were from the same guild. They failed, so they decided to go the next day with 8 people from the temple of ages.

My friend called me and asked if I wanted to join (I got a monk, and they needed one). So we went through lornars pass, just me, my buddy and the other 6 were from the guild. We worked great together.

So 2 days later I asked them if I could join them and that is how I got my guild

We are often playing Tombs or UW (at least as often as europe has the favor

). Every now and then we need one more player. We got a few people on our friends-list because we played good together.

So my advice is: keep looking out in tombs and UW/Fissure for Guild Teams that need one or 2 more and join them. You can see if they are nice, if they are able to play in team, etc. It can be tedious, but it really pays!

silvertemplar · Jul 01, 2005, 10:40 AM // 10:40

I don't get it. I thought GuildWars was suppose to be about skill [as in playing ability]?

Now it seems it is -entirely- dependent on how many runes you have, how many elites/late-PvE skills you unlocked and whether you can be online 24-7.

The simply fact that i saw plenty of people mention things like "x do not have spells y,z so he becomes worthless" ....huh? That is a serious game design flaw, you can't compete without spells/skills but yet you can only get them by competing in a guild which requires you to have those skills to begin with..huh again?

I actually bought the game for some "casual PvP" , it is clear there is no such thing, you can't casually PvP because you won't be accepted in a guild that is going to win anything unless you have "grinded" your way through PvE and unlocked everything worthwhile [which is in fact at the end of the game]. So i did that, but i got so fedup with the PvE parts later on that i found myself playing GTA:SA instead and not even -trying- PvP .....

Now i shudder to think how the PvP changes will help anyone that didn't unlock everything in PvE -anyway-. You need those skills to win matches, but you can only get them by winning....am i missing something? Now even if you can get wins without them, you need them to get into a guild! ...so now what?

The Ages · Jul 01, 2005, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvertemplar

I don't get it. I thought GuildWars was suppose to be about skill [as in playing ability]?

Now it seems it is -entirely- dependent on how many runes you have, how many elites/late-PvE skills you unlocked and whether you can be online 24-7.

The simply fact that i saw plenty of people mention things like "x do not have spells y,z so he becomes worthless" ....huh? That is a serious game design flaw, you can't compete without spells/skills but yet you can only get them by competing in a guild which requires you to have those skills to begin with..huh again?

I actually bought the game for some "casual PvP" , it is clear there is no such thing, you can't casually PvP because you won't be accepted in a guild that is going to win anything unless you have "grinded" your way through PvE and unlocked everything worthwhile [which is in fact at the end of the game]. So i did that, but i got so fedup with the PvE parts later on that i found myself playing GTA:SA instead and not even -trying- PvP .....

Wow my thoughts exactly, Seems that having a life means you cant do anything but random and team arenas in the current state.

asdar · Jul 01, 2005, 01:26 PM // 13:26

It's tough to find the right guild.

I just recently joined a new one and I'm happy, but before I joined I went down every single guild listed on this site and 4 others.

I added their leaders to my friends list to see if they played and read their forums, or even if I couldn't read them looked at the number of posts. If I could read the forums I'd check and see if they ever discussed strategy and tactics, and I'd always check the number of members. I would pass on a 2 member guild every time.

Lastly what I would do if everything looked good would be to talk to the leader about the guild and see if he'd let me join a guild group doing something. It's not as easy as it sounds to find a good guild that matches. I almost think you're better off just joining one of the shouters in Lions arch and quitting if it doesn't seem like what you want.

One thing is if I ever heard someone say something like, "we don't want no idiots," well that's a trash bin guild for me and I've heard it many times when I was searching. The last thing I wanted was a guild so narrow minded that they think they know the best and only way to play each class.

You can do casual PvP. My guild tests things out all the time with pre-builts and no runes. It limits you a little bit but it's fun. If you're organized and skilled you still win more than you lose.

In Random PvP your skill can lift your team even more than in organized play because there's almost never a perfect build on the opposing team

tomcruisejr · Jul 01, 2005, 03:44 PM // 15:44

a good guild is made by former newbies who sucked, failed, learned, tried and now conquering.

Lane · Jul 01, 2005, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvertemplar

I don't get it. I thought GuildWars was suppose to be about skill [as in playing ability]?

Now it seems it is -entirely- dependent on how many runes you have, how many elites/late-PvE skills you unlocked and whether you can be online 24-7.

The simply fact that i saw plenty of people mention things like "x do not have spells y,z so he becomes worthless" ....huh? That is a serious game design flaw, you can't compete without spells/skills but yet you can only get them by competing in a guild which requires you to have those skills to begin with..huh again?

It's not a serious game flaw... it's a people flaw. You can create a game that isn't based on the concept of requiring players to have certain skills/be a certain level/have the specific build, but you can't take that mentality out of a vast majority of the players.

Time and time again I see certain people advertising that they need a character of a certain profession with a specific number of attributes in the correct places and running only a specific elite... and I chalk it up to a problem with their mentality rather than the game. I personally know that I would do just as well or better carrying some other elite or have another attribute setup. Blaming this situation on the game is not correct.

Plannb23 · Jul 01, 2005, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Lane,

Well stated. My guild is a baby guild at best. We have ~10 folks who are all levels and scattered all over the map. I am the only one that has been ascended and actually hit the Tombs. And I have spent many hours trying to get into a group that has some interest in my skills. Mostly what I get is someone telling me that I need X skill to be able to meet what the group is going to be doing.

What I find is that people are more about supreme domination and using the tried and true methods Vs. learning something that is a bit different. Now I am no expert on this game. I have had it for about 6 weeks and just got ascended. I can barely figure out what I am doing mostly because I have a wife and kids that keep me from really diving in.

Anyways my point is that people take what is made and use it for their purposes and its not always the intended method of use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lane

It's not a serious game flaw... it's a people flaw. You can create a game that isn't based on the concept of requiring players to have certain skills/be a certain level/have the specific build, but you can't take that mentality out of a vast majority of the players.

Time and time again I see certain people advertising that they need a character of a certain profession with a specific number of attributes in the correct places and running only a specific elite... and I chalk it up to a problem with their mentality rather than the game. I personally know that I would do just as well or better carrying some other elite or have another attribute setup. Blaming this situation on the game is not correct.

Canadian · Jul 01, 2005, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote: